‘Tesla ships’ due to ship this autumn
Container barges use a lot of diesel. When I say a lot, I mean tonnes of the stuff.
So an battery powered electric container ship will cut out a considerable amount of pollution. By the way, these aren’t made by Tesla, it’s just a nickname they have been given.
h/t Craig Froehle
https://electrek.co/2018/01/12/large-tesla-ships-all-electric-barges/
https://electrek.co/2018/01/12/large-tesla-ships-all-electric-barges/
As long as they have some way to generate more power on board, I don’t think they would fancy running flat out at sea
As long as they have some way to generate more power on board, I don’t think they would fancy running flat out at sea
As long as they have some way to generate more power on board, I don’t think they would fancy running flat out at sea
James Walker That is a ridiculous thing to say. Why would it be any different for diesel powered ships?
James Walker That is a ridiculous thing to say. Why would it be any different for diesel powered ships?
James Walker That is a ridiculous thing to say. Why would it be any different for diesel powered ships?
nice
nice
nice
TL;DR. Inland barges not ocean going. With battery packs built into containers so they can easily be swapped.
TL;DR. Inland barges not ocean going. With battery packs built into containers so they can easily be swapped.
TL;DR. Inland barges not ocean going. With battery packs built into containers so they can easily be swapped.
Excellent
Excellent
Excellent
Alan Stainer batteries are heavy and the kind of electric motors they will be using will need large gearboxes to increase the torque. You either need a bigger boat or some sort of generator (photovoltaic or wind, probably) to keep the batteries full.
Alan Stainer batteries are heavy and the kind of electric motors they will be using will need large gearboxes to increase the torque. You either need a bigger boat or some sort of generator (photovoltaic or wind, probably) to keep the batteries full.
Alan Stainer batteries are heavy and the kind of electric motors they will be using will need large gearboxes to increase the torque. You either need a bigger boat or some sort of generator (photovoltaic or wind, probably) to keep the batteries full.
Meanwhile enormous cruise ships continue to bunker with used sump oil and then loiter around pristine wilderness spewing black filth from their funnels while the idle rich on board sip champagne
Meanwhile enormous cruise ships continue to bunker with used sump oil and then loiter around pristine wilderness spewing black filth from their funnels while the idle rich on board sip champagne
Meanwhile enormous cruise ships continue to bunker with used sump oil and then loiter around pristine wilderness spewing black filth from their funnels while the idle rich on board sip champagne
James Walker can you point to a reliable source to back up what you say about gearboxes?
The proof will be in the pudding as they say. These things are due out in the autumn and it would be incredible for them to release something without taking into consideration basic things like energy storage.
James Walker can you point to a reliable source to back up what you say about gearboxes?
The proof will be in the pudding as they say. These things are due out in the autumn and it would be incredible for them to release something without taking into consideration basic things like energy storage.
James Walker can you point to a reliable source to back up what you say about gearboxes?
The proof will be in the pudding as they say. These things are due out in the autumn and it would be incredible for them to release something without taking into consideration basic things like energy storage.
Alan Stainer you’re right, I’m sure the engineers have all that worked out, but there is this weird effect that new technology has on people that seems to make them think its infallible, like if you show someone a fake email on an iPad they are less likely to question it vs a printed copy, so you may find that the users run these things to metaphorical fumes because it just doesn’t occur to them that they have similar limitations to what they replace.
And since its a big ship to begin with, what’s a few solar panels on top of the bridge?
Alan Stainer you’re right, I’m sure the engineers have all that worked out, but there is this weird effect that new technology has on people that seems to make them think its infallible, like if you show someone a fake email on an iPad they are less likely to question it vs a printed copy, so you may find that the users run these things to metaphorical fumes because it just doesn’t occur to them that they have similar limitations to what they replace.
And since its a big ship to begin with, what’s a few solar panels on top of the bridge?
Alan Stainer you’re right, I’m sure the engineers have all that worked out, but there is this weird effect that new technology has on people that seems to make them think its infallible, like if you show someone a fake email on an iPad they are less likely to question it vs a printed copy, so you may find that the users run these things to metaphorical fumes because it just doesn’t occur to them that they have similar limitations to what they replace.
And since its a big ship to begin with, what’s a few solar panels on top of the bridge?
Lick your finger and hold it up
http://www.machinedesign.com/fea-and-simulation/updating-sailing-cargo-ship
Lick your finger and hold it up
http://www.machinedesign.com/fea-and-simulation/updating-sailing-cargo-ship
Lick your finger and hold it up
http://www.machinedesign.com/fea-and-simulation/updating-sailing-cargo-ship
Alan Stainer also, as for sources about the gearbox, I have none and am just going on experience with land vehicles. If you attach a wheel directly to the output shaft it spins really fast, makes a lot of noise and smoke, but doesn’t move very far, I imagine something similar happens with cavitation around a propeller in water.
Thought I should make that point clear.
Alan Stainer also, as for sources about the gearbox, I have none and am just going on experience with land vehicles. If you attach a wheel directly to the output shaft it spins really fast, makes a lot of noise and smoke, but doesn’t move very far, I imagine something similar happens with cavitation around a propeller in water.
Thought I should make that point clear.
Alan Stainer also, as for sources about the gearbox, I have none and am just going on experience with land vehicles. If you attach a wheel directly to the output shaft it spins really fast, makes a lot of noise and smoke, but doesn’t move very far, I imagine something similar happens with cavitation around a propeller in water.
Thought I should make that point clear.
James Walker I know with EVs in general gears become irrelevant, which is why I asked.
James Walker I know with EVs in general gears become irrelevant, which is why I asked.
James Walker I know with EVs in general gears become irrelevant, which is why I asked.
James Walker electric coupling removes the need for a gearbox which is a mechanical torque converter. Diesel electric propulsion uses transformers to acheive this.
James Walker electric coupling removes the need for a gearbox which is a mechanical torque converter. Diesel electric propulsion uses transformers to acheive this.
James Walker electric coupling removes the need for a gearbox which is a mechanical torque converter. Diesel electric propulsion uses transformers to acheive this.
Most modern ships run on electric drive, diesel-electric for cargo ships and gas turbine-electric drive for Navy warships. Electric drive is cheaper, easier to maintain and more reliable. Even the new generation of nuclear submarines are going back to electric drive, because EV is quieter and easier on the operation of the reactor.
Most modern ships run on electric drive, diesel-electric for cargo ships and gas turbine-electric drive for Navy warships. Electric drive is cheaper, easier to maintain and more reliable. Even the new generation of nuclear submarines are going back to electric drive, because EV is quieter and easier on the operation of the reactor.
Most modern ships run on electric drive, diesel-electric for cargo ships and gas turbine-electric drive for Navy warships. Electric drive is cheaper, easier to maintain and more reliable. Even the new generation of nuclear submarines are going back to electric drive, because EV is quieter and easier on the operation of the reactor.
Electric has tons of torque compared to diesel so I see no problem with the physics of the ship, I am curious as to the range. Diesel has a lot of energy, by both volume and mass, so how many container size batteries would be required to give those tankers an equivalent amount of range to diesel?
Though as I stated last time this was posted I would rather 3D printing replace cargo ships. Why ship it around the world when you can print it out locally?
Electric has tons of torque compared to diesel so I see no problem with the physics of the ship, I am curious as to the range. Diesel has a lot of energy, by both volume and mass, so how many container size batteries would be required to give those tankers an equivalent amount of range to diesel?
Though as I stated last time this was posted I would rather 3D printing replace cargo ships. Why ship it around the world when you can print it out locally?
Electric has tons of torque compared to diesel so I see no problem with the physics of the ship, I am curious as to the range. Diesel has a lot of energy, by both volume and mass, so how many container size batteries would be required to give those tankers an equivalent amount of range to diesel?
Though as I stated last time this was posted I would rather 3D printing replace cargo ships. Why ship it around the world when you can print it out locally?
Wind power has long been known as the ideal marine propulsion system
Wind power has long been known as the ideal marine propulsion system
Wind power has long been known as the ideal marine propulsion system
James Walker I build electric vehicles and that is bullshit. I’ve compared the two and while 18650 cell packs are a little too heavy to quite match diesel fuel in power density, the 26650 and the 21700 cells are both twice while the later is nearly three times the power densityof 18650 cells which come close albeit not quite diesel fuel levels of power density.
Now, about the gearbox. Fossil fuel rotary crank engines like gas and diesel have a very small rpm range to work with in comparison to even brushed electric motors. They NEED a transmission to get up to speed or they will always be stuck at low speed range… electric motors need no such nonsense. This means you can run at high enough rpms to not really worry about a gearbox. This lightens the load on the weight the engine and it’s supporting systems would take up. It also does not need an oil change ever so no oil or tedious maintenance like a gas or diesel engine. No carburetor or other subsystems so that means you just have a hunk of metal there that weighs less than half of the petrol engine by itself not including the petrol engines supporting systems for the same power but insane amounts of torque in contrast.
And here is the kicker… At less than half the cost all around.
Lighter, more powerful, and cheaper. That is why Tesla is becoming so popular.
James Walker I build electric vehicles and that is bullshit. I’ve compared the two and while 18650 cell packs are a little too heavy to quite match diesel fuel in power density, the 26650 and the 21700 cells are both twice while the later is nearly three times the power densityof 18650 cells which come close albeit not quite diesel fuel levels of power density.
Now, about the gearbox. Fossil fuel rotary crank engines like gas and diesel have a very small rpm range to work with in comparison to even brushed electric motors. They NEED a transmission to get up to speed or they will always be stuck at low speed range… electric motors need no such nonsense. This means you can run at high enough rpms to not really worry about a gearbox. This lightens the load on the weight the engine and it’s supporting systems would take up. It also does not need an oil change ever so no oil or tedious maintenance like a gas or diesel engine. No carburetor or other subsystems so that means you just have a hunk of metal there that weighs less than half of the petrol engine by itself not including the petrol engines supporting systems for the same power but insane amounts of torque in contrast.
And here is the kicker… At less than half the cost all around.
Lighter, more powerful, and cheaper. That is why Tesla is becoming so popular.
James Walker I build electric vehicles and that is bullshit. I’ve compared the two and while 18650 cell packs are a little too heavy to quite match diesel fuel in power density, the 26650 and the 21700 cells are both twice while the later is nearly three times the power densityof 18650 cells which come close albeit not quite diesel fuel levels of power density.
Now, about the gearbox. Fossil fuel rotary crank engines like gas and diesel have a very small rpm range to work with in comparison to even brushed electric motors. They NEED a transmission to get up to speed or they will always be stuck at low speed range… electric motors need no such nonsense. This means you can run at high enough rpms to not really worry about a gearbox. This lightens the load on the weight the engine and it’s supporting systems would take up. It also does not need an oil change ever so no oil or tedious maintenance like a gas or diesel engine. No carburetor or other subsystems so that means you just have a hunk of metal there that weighs less than half of the petrol engine by itself not including the petrol engines supporting systems for the same power but insane amounts of torque in contrast.
And here is the kicker… At less than half the cost all around.
Lighter, more powerful, and cheaper. That is why Tesla is becoming so popular.
Professor Panic Alan Stainer,
James Walker has a point though.
He believes the ship should have solar panels or perhaps a small wind turbine on board to keep the battery fully charged at all times.
I personally don’t think anyone should object to that idea. He’s thinking safety and when it comes to these large ships out in the sea, safety should be a priority.
Professor Panic Alan Stainer,
James Walker has a point though.
He believes the ship should have solar panels or perhaps a small wind turbine on board to keep the battery fully charged at all times.
I personally don’t think anyone should object to that idea. He’s thinking safety and when it comes to these large ships out in the sea, safety should be a priority.
Professor Panic Alan Stainer,
James Walker has a point though.
He believes the ship should have solar panels or perhaps a small wind turbine on board to keep the battery fully charged at all times.
I personally don’t think anyone should object to that idea. He’s thinking safety and when it comes to these large ships out in the sea, safety should be a priority.
miguel agramonte I never objected to the idea of solar panels or power generation on board. I was only pointing out the ballogna that he tried passing off as fact.
miguel agramonte I never objected to the idea of solar panels or power generation on board. I was only pointing out the ballogna that he tried passing off as fact.
miguel agramonte I never objected to the idea of solar panels or power generation on board. I was only pointing out the ballogna that he tried passing off as fact.
Solar panels or any sort of renewable source in addition to batteries on a large vessel would seem sensible (they are getting light enough to not add that much weight).
It’s the misinformation (however unintentional) that we were pointing out, because when you talk about technology and science, you really need to base all of your arguments on verifiable fact. There is a lot of misinformation about clean technology floating around the internet and other platforms and it has been funded in most part by the fossil fuel industry.
There is also the issue that important pieces of information often get overlooked and aren’t widely known by the populace. That’s another route for misinformation to creep in as people tend to talk about things confidently when they don’t know the facts. For instance the fact that EVs don’t require gears or oil is a really big difference, but from my experience not many people know this and so people generally believe that EVs do have gears and do require oil. I had a similar experience when I was looking for a new car myself. The salesman confidently told me that electric car batteries use cadmium, which is highly toxic and cannot be recycled and is therefore bad for the environment. This was clearly false, as EVs have been using lithium ion batteries for years now and cadmium isn’t even in the picture. How many people did that salesman talk to that now believe EVs are carrying toxic batteries around with them?
Whenever any information is wrong or misinformed, it needs to be challenged. Anyway, misinformation rant over.
Solar panels or any sort of renewable source in addition to batteries on a large vessel would seem sensible (they are getting light enough to not add that much weight).
It’s the misinformation (however unintentional) that we were pointing out, because when you talk about technology and science, you really need to base all of your arguments on verifiable fact. There is a lot of misinformation about clean technology floating around the internet and other platforms and it has been funded in most part by the fossil fuel industry.
There is also the issue that important pieces of information often get overlooked and aren’t widely known by the populace. That’s another route for misinformation to creep in as people tend to talk about things confidently when they don’t know the facts. For instance the fact that EVs don’t require gears or oil is a really big difference, but from my experience not many people know this and so people generally believe that EVs do have gears and do require oil. I had a similar experience when I was looking for a new car myself. The salesman confidently told me that electric car batteries use cadmium, which is highly toxic and cannot be recycled and is therefore bad for the environment. This was clearly false, as EVs have been using lithium ion batteries for years now and cadmium isn’t even in the picture. How many people did that salesman talk to that now believe EVs are carrying toxic batteries around with them?
Whenever any information is wrong or misinformed, it needs to be challenged. Anyway, misinformation rant over.
Solar panels or any sort of renewable source in addition to batteries on a large vessel would seem sensible (they are getting light enough to not add that much weight).
It’s the misinformation (however unintentional) that we were pointing out, because when you talk about technology and science, you really need to base all of your arguments on verifiable fact. There is a lot of misinformation about clean technology floating around the internet and other platforms and it has been funded in most part by the fossil fuel industry.
There is also the issue that important pieces of information often get overlooked and aren’t widely known by the populace. That’s another route for misinformation to creep in as people tend to talk about things confidently when they don’t know the facts. For instance the fact that EVs don’t require gears or oil is a really big difference, but from my experience not many people know this and so people generally believe that EVs do have gears and do require oil. I had a similar experience when I was looking for a new car myself. The salesman confidently told me that electric car batteries use cadmium, which is highly toxic and cannot be recycled and is therefore bad for the environment. This was clearly false, as EVs have been using lithium ion batteries for years now and cadmium isn’t even in the picture. How many people did that salesman talk to that now believe EVs are carrying toxic batteries around with them?
Whenever any information is wrong or misinformed, it needs to be challenged. Anyway, misinformation rant over.
Alan Stainer you put into eords what i couldn’t.
Talking suthoritatively about things they know nothing about.
I like that. But yes, people think that EV’s are more complicated than they are. It is my job as a low end custom EV engineer to educaute people. My job depends on educated people.
Alan Stainer you put into eords what i couldn’t.
Talking suthoritatively about things they know nothing about.
I like that. But yes, people think that EV’s are more complicated than they are. It is my job as a low end custom EV engineer to educaute people. My job depends on educated people.
Alan Stainer you put into eords what i couldn’t.
Talking suthoritatively about things they know nothing about.
I like that. But yes, people think that EV’s are more complicated than they are. It is my job as a low end custom EV engineer to educaute people. My job depends on educated people.
Really worried about battery size.
Really worried about battery size.
Really worried about battery size.
Hejar khalid The thing about batteries is that they are getting smaller all the time. The latest Nissan LEAF has greater range and is slightly lighter than the original, for example.
Personally I would be more worried about the amount of diesel required to move a large ship. There are just so many more problems associated with it.
Hejar khalid The thing about batteries is that they are getting smaller all the time. The latest Nissan LEAF has greater range and is slightly lighter than the original, for example.
Personally I would be more worried about the amount of diesel required to move a large ship. There are just so many more problems associated with it.
Hejar khalid The thing about batteries is that they are getting smaller all the time. The latest Nissan LEAF has greater range and is slightly lighter than the original, for example.
Personally I would be more worried about the amount of diesel required to move a large ship. There are just so many more problems associated with it.
Professor Panic thanks for the kind words, but my gearing worry is that electric motors will run too fast with too little torque.
I also imagine that ships would use different chemistry than what smaller vehicles would use, since fire at sea is a very bad thing despite the fact you are surrounded by water. I imagine they aren’t going to use comparatively delicate lithium batteries, despite being more energy dense.
Professor Panic thanks for the kind words, but my gearing worry is that electric motors will run too fast with too little torque.
I also imagine that ships would use different chemistry than what smaller vehicles would use, since fire at sea is a very bad thing despite the fact you are surrounded by water. I imagine they aren’t going to use comparatively delicate lithium batteries, despite being more energy dense.
Professor Panic thanks for the kind words, but my gearing worry is that electric motors will run too fast with too little torque.
I also imagine that ships would use different chemistry than what smaller vehicles would use, since fire at sea is a very bad thing despite the fact you are surrounded by water. I imagine they aren’t going to use comparatively delicate lithium batteries, despite being more energy dense.
Alan Stainer also, on your cadmium topic, while it is very toxic and I would not use it in anything that crashes with the alarming frequency that cars crash, I believe it is more robust to overcharging as well as the so called “memory effect” that some lithium cells still suffer with.
That’s just my two pence on the topic.
Alan Stainer also, on your cadmium topic, while it is very toxic and I would not use it in anything that crashes with the alarming frequency that cars crash, I believe it is more robust to overcharging as well as the so called “memory effect” that some lithium cells still suffer with.
That’s just my two pence on the topic.
Alan Stainer also, on your cadmium topic, while it is very toxic and I would not use it in anything that crashes with the alarming frequency that cars crash, I believe it is more robust to overcharging as well as the so called “memory effect” that some lithium cells still suffer with.
That’s just my two pence on the topic.
I am disgusted to learn that the fossil fuels industries are using the information highway to promote fake news on their behalf, which reminds me of a quote I read recently that said,
“There is plenty on Earth to satisfy everyone’s needs, but not enough for everyone’s greed”.
In regards to solar panels, I understand researchers are trying to minimise the size while maximizing their efficiency. So far, they are able to produce them as small as one square inch and mass produce them by the rolls on a 3D printer.
I am disgusted to learn that the fossil fuels industries are using the information highway to promote fake news on their behalf, which reminds me of a quote I read recently that said,
“There is plenty on Earth to satisfy everyone’s needs, but not enough for everyone’s greed”.
In regards to solar panels, I understand researchers are trying to minimise the size while maximizing their efficiency. So far, they are able to produce them as small as one square inch and mass produce them by the rolls on a 3D printer.
I am disgusted to learn that the fossil fuels industries are using the information highway to promote fake news on their behalf, which reminds me of a quote I read recently that said,
“There is plenty on Earth to satisfy everyone’s needs, but not enough for everyone’s greed”.
In regards to solar panels, I understand researchers are trying to minimise the size while maximizing their efficiency. So far, they are able to produce them as small as one square inch and mass produce them by the rolls on a 3D printer.
James Walker lithium iron phosphate m8. Or lifepo4. That is id argue more stable than even lead acid. Ive abused rhose batteries just to see what would happen and no explosion or thermal runaway. There are even scientific studies conducted. No fire either. Fear of fire is no excuse anymore.
You’re thinking of lithium cobalt oxide which are the same batteries that tesla uses. Or pouch cells which do puff up and pop if you’re not carefully balancing their charge. Even then, we know enough about lithium now not to have thermal runaway happen.
James Walker lithium iron phosphate m8. Or lifepo4. That is id argue more stable than even lead acid. Ive abused rhose batteries just to see what would happen and no explosion or thermal runaway. There are even scientific studies conducted. No fire either. Fear of fire is no excuse anymore.
You’re thinking of lithium cobalt oxide which are the same batteries that tesla uses. Or pouch cells which do puff up and pop if you’re not carefully balancing their charge. Even then, we know enough about lithium now not to have thermal runaway happen.
James Walker lithium iron phosphate m8. Or lifepo4. That is id argue more stable than even lead acid. Ive abused rhose batteries just to see what would happen and no explosion or thermal runaway. There are even scientific studies conducted. No fire either. Fear of fire is no excuse anymore.
You’re thinking of lithium cobalt oxide which are the same batteries that tesla uses. Or pouch cells which do puff up and pop if you’re not carefully balancing their charge. Even then, we know enough about lithium now not to have thermal runaway happen.
I know battery technology has come a long way since I served in the Submarine Force (1968 to 1988), but the idea of a battery powered surface ship without some charging source on board with more density than solar or wind is hard to wrap my mind around. The Nuke boats I served on had a large battery for short duration emergency power when the reactor shut down. My one and only diesel-electric boat spent most of its time snorkeling or surfaced on the diesel generators. When we went deep on the battery, I could cruise at 3 knots for about 4 days, but a full bell (about 12 knots) was a 1.5 hour discharge rate. It would take a battery about the size of that Tesla installation in Australia to push a surface ship any significant distance without recharging every few days.
I know battery technology has come a long way since I served in the Submarine Force (1968 to 1988), but the idea of a battery powered surface ship without some charging source on board with more density than solar or wind is hard to wrap my mind around. The Nuke boats I served on had a large battery for short duration emergency power when the reactor shut down. My one and only diesel-electric boat spent most of its time snorkeling or surfaced on the diesel generators. When we went deep on the battery, I could cruise at 3 knots for about 4 days, but a full bell (about 12 knots) was a 1.5 hour discharge rate. It would take a battery about the size of that Tesla installation in Australia to push a surface ship any significant distance without recharging every few days.
I know battery technology has come a long way since I served in the Submarine Force (1968 to 1988), but the idea of a battery powered surface ship without some charging source on board with more density than solar or wind is hard to wrap my mind around. The Nuke boats I served on had a large battery for short duration emergency power when the reactor shut down. My one and only diesel-electric boat spent most of its time snorkeling or surfaced on the diesel generators. When we went deep on the battery, I could cruise at 3 knots for about 4 days, but a full bell (about 12 knots) was a 1.5 hour discharge rate. It would take a battery about the size of that Tesla installation in Australia to push a surface ship any significant distance without recharging every few days.
miguel agramonte I’m aware that solar has come on in leaps and bounds in the last decade or two, but forgive me if I’m sceptical of those palm sized panels.
When I was a kid I had a construction toy that came with a solar panel and a DC motor, and it was the most underwhelming demonstration of the “future of energy” that you could possibly give a kid. On a bright, but overcast day the motor would sit motionless in the windowsill, if you gave it a good bat to get it going it would spin at about 5 RPM for the next 5 to 10 minutes depending on how close to noon-ish it was.
It would really get going in direct sunlight, but that was very rare except in midsummer.
I do believe if every house had a solar roof we could build up a surplus of energy, but those little panels still feel like a waste of energy and resources to even produce. (I would like to be proven wrong, though.)
miguel agramonte I’m aware that solar has come on in leaps and bounds in the last decade or two, but forgive me if I’m sceptical of those palm sized panels.
When I was a kid I had a construction toy that came with a solar panel and a DC motor, and it was the most underwhelming demonstration of the “future of energy” that you could possibly give a kid. On a bright, but overcast day the motor would sit motionless in the windowsill, if you gave it a good bat to get it going it would spin at about 5 RPM for the next 5 to 10 minutes depending on how close to noon-ish it was.
It would really get going in direct sunlight, but that was very rare except in midsummer.
I do believe if every house had a solar roof we could build up a surplus of energy, but those little panels still feel like a waste of energy and resources to even produce. (I would like to be proven wrong, though.)
miguel agramonte I’m aware that solar has come on in leaps and bounds in the last decade or two, but forgive me if I’m sceptical of those palm sized panels.
When I was a kid I had a construction toy that came with a solar panel and a DC motor, and it was the most underwhelming demonstration of the “future of energy” that you could possibly give a kid. On a bright, but overcast day the motor would sit motionless in the windowsill, if you gave it a good bat to get it going it would spin at about 5 RPM for the next 5 to 10 minutes depending on how close to noon-ish it was.
It would really get going in direct sunlight, but that was very rare except in midsummer.
I do believe if every house had a solar roof we could build up a surplus of energy, but those little panels still feel like a waste of energy and resources to even produce. (I would like to be proven wrong, though.)
James Walker
You can try “Smashable.com“. Look for solar panels 3D printer where you may watch a short video I thought it was worthwhile watching.
And yes, they claim their goal is to reduce the size of solar panels down to one tenth of a inch square.
James Walker
You can try “Smashable.com“. Look for solar panels 3D printer where you may watch a short video I thought it was worthwhile watching.
And yes, they claim their goal is to reduce the size of solar panels down to one tenth of a inch square.
James Walker
You can try “Smashable.com“. Look for solar panels 3D printer where you may watch a short video I thought it was worthwhile watching.
And yes, they claim their goal is to reduce the size of solar panels down to one tenth of a inch square.
miguel agramonte thank you, I’ll look into it
miguel agramonte thank you, I’ll look into it
miguel agramonte thank you, I’ll look into it
Good.
Good.
Good.
What happens when the ship sinks and all that power produces huge amounts of toxic chlorine gas through electrolysis of the sea water?
What happens when the ship sinks and all that power produces huge amounts of toxic chlorine gas through electrolysis of the sea water?
What happens when the ship sinks and all that power produces huge amounts of toxic chlorine gas through electrolysis of the sea water?
Richard laughton What happens when a ship carrying tonnes of diesel fuel sinks and the sea is polluted with highly toxic chemicals?
You are making the assumption that the batteries are exposed to the elements.
Richard laughton What happens when a ship carrying tonnes of diesel fuel sinks and the sea is polluted with highly toxic chemicals?
You are making the assumption that the batteries are exposed to the elements.
Richard laughton What happens when a ship carrying tonnes of diesel fuel sinks and the sea is polluted with highly toxic chemicals?
You are making the assumption that the batteries are exposed to the elements.
Richard laughton Drop a handful of rechargeable batteries in a pail of seawater and watch what happens …. nothing. BTW, electrolysis produces oxygen and “explosive” hydrogen, not chlorine gas. Chlorine compounds (not gas) are produced from seawater contamination of the electrolyte used in conventional lead-acid batteries. We used to monitor for chlorine buildup in the atmosphere of submerged (75+ days) nuclear submarines I served on for 20 years, but frankly, a little CL in the atmosphere was our least concern during a submarine battery flooding or fire casualty. We were more concerned about the contribution of CL from products like refrigerants and cleaning products accumulating over time.
web.mit.edu – web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2005/a2/8/pdf1.pdf
Richard laughton Drop a handful of rechargeable batteries in a pail of seawater and watch what happens …. nothing. BTW, electrolysis produces oxygen and “explosive” hydrogen, not chlorine gas. Chlorine compounds (not gas) are produced from seawater contamination of the electrolyte used in conventional lead-acid batteries. We used to monitor for chlorine buildup in the atmosphere of submerged (75+ days) nuclear submarines I served on for 20 years, but frankly, a little CL in the atmosphere was our least concern during a submarine battery flooding or fire casualty. We were more concerned about the contribution of CL from products like refrigerants and cleaning products accumulating over time.
web.mit.edu – web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2005/a2/8/pdf1.pdf
Richard laughton Drop a handful of rechargeable batteries in a pail of seawater and watch what happens …. nothing. BTW, electrolysis produces oxygen and “explosive” hydrogen, not chlorine gas. Chlorine compounds (not gas) are produced from seawater contamination of the electrolyte used in conventional lead-acid batteries. We used to monitor for chlorine buildup in the atmosphere of submerged (75+ days) nuclear submarines I served on for 20 years, but frankly, a little CL in the atmosphere was our least concern during a submarine battery flooding or fire casualty. We were more concerned about the contribution of CL from products like refrigerants and cleaning products accumulating over time.
web.mit.edu – web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2005/a2/8/pdf1.pdf
I don’t deny that the pollution produced from diesel is horrendous and am an advocate for renewable energy myself. However, we also need to be aware of any downside or potential problems associated with renewable energy and storage in order to mitigate for it and not just turn a blind eye. Just for clarification, electrolysis of brine does produce chlorine gas, sodium hydroxide and hydrogen. The sodium hydroxide and chlorine gas will react together if not kept separate to produce sodium hypochlorite or bleach as most people know it. My question is how much will be produced by one of these super batteries, what could be the environmental impact, if any and are their any ways to overcome or contain this problem?
I don’t deny that the pollution produced from diesel is horrendous and am an advocate for renewable energy myself. However, we also need to be aware of any downside or potential problems associated with renewable energy and storage in order to mitigate for it and not just turn a blind eye. Just for clarification, electrolysis of brine does produce chlorine gas, sodium hydroxide and hydrogen. The sodium hydroxide and chlorine gas will react together if not kept separate to produce sodium hypochlorite or bleach as most people know it. My question is how much will be produced by one of these super batteries, what could be the environmental impact, if any and are their any ways to overcome or contain this problem?
I don’t deny that the pollution produced from diesel is horrendous and am an advocate for renewable energy myself. However, we also need to be aware of any downside or potential problems associated with renewable energy and storage in order to mitigate for it and not just turn a blind eye. Just for clarification, electrolysis of brine does produce chlorine gas, sodium hydroxide and hydrogen. The sodium hydroxide and chlorine gas will react together if not kept separate to produce sodium hypochlorite or bleach as most people know it. My question is how much will be produced by one of these super batteries, what could be the environmental impact, if any and are their any ways to overcome or contain this problem?
Alan Stainer I agree with James Walker. Not only will it be cleaner, there are a multitude of things that can happen when using electricity.
Generators I’m sure, however if all tan out they could conduct of the ship….Diesel not much.
Alan Stainer I agree with James Walker. Not only will it be cleaner, there are a multitude of things that can happen when using electricity.
Generators I’m sure, however if all tan out they could conduct of the ship….Diesel not much.
Alan Stainer I agree with James Walker. Not only will it be cleaner, there are a multitude of things that can happen when using electricity.
Generators I’m sure, however if all tan out they could conduct of the ship….Diesel not much.
Stephanie Hall Regardless of the power source, ships do breakdown at sea. Electric propulsion systems actually are more reliable, with fewer moving parts (engine vs. motor) and much less maintenance. I once spent three days adrift on an oil powered Navy ship half way between Hawaii and Sydney, Australia, while we repaired a bearing. It was fortunate that we were a submarine repair ship with the facilities to manufacture just about anything.
tendertale.com – USS Proteus AS 19
Stephanie Hall Regardless of the power source, ships do breakdown at sea. Electric propulsion systems actually are more reliable, with fewer moving parts (engine vs. motor) and much less maintenance. I once spent three days adrift on an oil powered Navy ship half way between Hawaii and Sydney, Australia, while we repaired a bearing. It was fortunate that we were a submarine repair ship with the facilities to manufacture just about anything.
tendertale.com – USS Proteus AS 19
Stephanie Hall Regardless of the power source, ships do breakdown at sea. Electric propulsion systems actually are more reliable, with fewer moving parts (engine vs. motor) and much less maintenance. I once spent three days adrift on an oil powered Navy ship half way between Hawaii and Sydney, Australia, while we repaired a bearing. It was fortunate that we were a submarine repair ship with the facilities to manufacture just about anything.
tendertale.com – USS Proteus AS 19
I completely agree, it would be cleaner than diesel. However, just about everything has an upside and a down side rgt.
I completely agree, it would be cleaner than diesel. However, just about everything has an upside and a down side rgt.
I completely agree, it would be cleaner than diesel. However, just about everything has an upside and a down side rgt.
Everyone just fantastic discussion, I just keep coming back, she is a beauty.
To be successful I beleive IT necessary to consider all possible variables.
Solar panels sure, certainly wouldn’t hinder in anyway.
Wind at sea Logical choice. However, millions have been made from the wind Turbines.when we were told they were moving them higher and out to sea to maximize wind, not totally true.
They were put up North in my State and each Turbine caused “Chatter Jaw” up to a 100 mile radius. People need to be mindful of cause and effect. Wildlife moving down country for food because of Chatter Jaw. I can’t imagine how it is affecting the sea life.
I keep thinking when cloning a program into multiple Drives at the same time, also creating an alternating draw would have merrit.
Hmmm, I would give anything to see her at sea.
Go Green
Everyone just fantastic discussion, I just keep coming back, she is a beauty.
To be successful I beleive IT necessary to consider all possible variables.
Solar panels sure, certainly wouldn’t hinder in anyway.
Wind at sea Logical choice. However, millions have been made from the wind Turbines.when we were told they were moving them higher and out to sea to maximize wind, not totally true.
They were put up North in my State and each Turbine caused “Chatter Jaw” up to a 100 mile radius. People need to be mindful of cause and effect. Wildlife moving down country for food because of Chatter Jaw. I can’t imagine how it is affecting the sea life.
I keep thinking when cloning a program into multiple Drives at the same time, also creating an alternating draw would have merrit.
Hmmm, I would give anything to see her at sea.
Go Green
Everyone just fantastic discussion, I just keep coming back, she is a beauty.
To be successful I beleive IT necessary to consider all possible variables.
Solar panels sure, certainly wouldn’t hinder in anyway.
Wind at sea Logical choice. However, millions have been made from the wind Turbines.when we were told they were moving them higher and out to sea to maximize wind, not totally true.
They were put up North in my State and each Turbine caused “Chatter Jaw” up to a 100 mile radius. People need to be mindful of cause and effect. Wildlife moving down country for food because of Chatter Jaw. I can’t imagine how it is affecting the sea life.
I keep thinking when cloning a program into multiple Drives at the same time, also creating an alternating draw would have merrit.
Hmmm, I would give anything to see her at sea.
Go Green
Stephanie Hall “Chatter Jaw”??? Sounds like fake news to me. Any credible references, or are you just another Russian TROLL Farm?
Stephanie Hall “Chatter Jaw”??? Sounds like fake news to me. Any credible references, or are you just another Russian TROLL Farm?
Stephanie Hall “Chatter Jaw”??? Sounds like fake news to me. Any credible references, or are you just another Russian TROLL Farm?
Yep chatter jaw really does sound like baloney.
Yep chatter jaw really does sound like baloney.
Yep chatter jaw really does sound like baloney.
Alan Stainer Nothing related to wind turbines came up on Google or academic research sites.
Alan Stainer Nothing related to wind turbines came up on Google or academic research sites.
Alan Stainer Nothing related to wind turbines came up on Google or academic research sites.
It was reported by our local news and the ehtir township had constant chatter jaw…when you just keep banging them together …true…
It was reported by our local news and the ehtir township had constant chatter jaw…when you just keep banging them together …true…
It was reported by our local news and the ehtir township had constant chatter jaw…when you just keep banging them together …true…
Actually saw with my own eyes, friends that lived in the township affected
Actually saw with my own eyes, friends that lived in the township affected
Actually saw with my own eyes, friends that lived in the township affected
Then the battle of mountains being used began
Then the battle of mountains being used began
Then the battle of mountains being used began
Stephanie Hall Again, provide credible documentation or references.
Stephanie Hall Again, provide credible documentation or references.
Stephanie Hall Again, provide credible documentation or references.
Happy too..it really isn’t that hard to grasp. The size, the constant vibration up to a 100 mile radius. A new design that looks like trees , country escapes me , much less impact.
Happy too..it really isn’t that hard to grasp. The size, the constant vibration up to a 100 mile radius. A new design that looks like trees , country escapes me , much less impact.
Happy too..it really isn’t that hard to grasp. The size, the constant vibration up to a 100 mile radius. A new design that looks like trees , country escapes me , much less impact.
Stephanie Hall There is no documentation to support your claim. If it were true, there would be published studies or news reports on the subject, of which I found none in searching the internet and several academic sites. There are wind farms all over the US with no vibration problems, much less a 100 mile radius.
Stephanie Hall There is no documentation to support your claim. If it were true, there would be published studies or news reports on the subject, of which I found none in searching the internet and several academic sites. There are wind farms all over the US with no vibration problems, much less a 100 mile radius.
Stephanie Hall There is no documentation to support your claim. If it were true, there would be published studies or news reports on the subject, of which I found none in searching the internet and several academic sites. There are wind farms all over the US with no vibration problems, much less a 100 mile radius.
Stephanie Hall You do realize that windmills have been in use all over the planet for a couple hundred years?
Stephanie Hall You do realize that windmills have been in use all over the planet for a couple hundred years?
Stephanie Hall You do realize that windmills have been in use all over the planet for a couple hundred years?
I no what was reported, saw the results up North, so u are certainly entitled to come across so emphatically in your cross-checking of facts.
However, I will produce the results from the new station we have as well as people that have and are going through it. I suggest you keep looking because it’s out there. And I think it’s really only fair to to accuse me of a falsification just because you haven’t located something at this point I find premature. I acknowledge that I would generate factual evidence, at this moment I don’t have the time to do it however I will put the time and effort into it as it is my credibility obviously on the line year thank you sir
I no what was reported, saw the results up North, so u are certainly entitled to come across so emphatically in your cross-checking of facts.
However, I will produce the results from the new station we have as well as people that have and are going through it. I suggest you keep looking because it’s out there. And I think it’s really only fair to to accuse me of a falsification just because you haven’t located something at this point I find premature. I acknowledge that I would generate factual evidence, at this moment I don’t have the time to do it however I will put the time and effort into it as it is my credibility obviously on the line year thank you sir
I no what was reported, saw the results up North, so u are certainly entitled to come across so emphatically in your cross-checking of facts.
However, I will produce the results from the new station we have as well as people that have and are going through it. I suggest you keep looking because it’s out there. And I think it’s really only fair to to accuse me of a falsification just because you haven’t located something at this point I find premature. I acknowledge that I would generate factual evidence, at this moment I don’t have the time to do it however I will put the time and effort into it as it is my credibility obviously on the line year thank you sir
Stephanie Hall perhaps you could start your own post about the condition you have mentioned with some references and an explanation as to what chatter jaw actually is?
Stephanie Hall perhaps you could start your own post about the condition you have mentioned with some references and an explanation as to what chatter jaw actually is?
Stephanie Hall perhaps you could start your own post about the condition you have mentioned with some references and an explanation as to what chatter jaw actually is?
Thank you Alan,
I do apologize if I WAS inappropriate in any manner, It was not my intent.
May your moments always be filled w/ much laughter and love.
Love and peace
Steph
Thank you Alan,
I do apologize if I WAS inappropriate in any manner, It was not my intent.
May your moments always be filled w/ much laughter and love.
Love and peace
Steph
Thank you Alan,
I do apologize if I WAS inappropriate in any manner, It was not my intent.
May your moments always be filled w/ much laughter and love.
Love and peace
Steph