Alan Stainer

Tech head through and through.

Do hybrids have a future?

by

Do hybrids have a future?

POD Point raise some really important issues regarding hybrid vehicles and our ongoing battle against pollution.

Now while the article talks specifically about London and the Congestion Charge, it does talk about disincentives and their affect on human behaviour. Speaking as someone who lives in a rural area, but which has lots of the same pollution fears as central London, wouldn’t it make sense to introduce similar disincentives like the Congestion Charge into other areas?

https://pod-point.com/electric-car-news/do-hybrids-have-future

https://pod-point.com/electric-car-news/do-hybrids-have-future

Reader Interactions

Comments

  5. Peter Barrett says

    I live in a rural area where farmers get their fuel delivered by the road train load. Spraying operations consume hundreds of litres a day and spreads thousands of litres of glyphosate, paraquat and assorted insecticides in a diesel emulsion every time it rains. But it’s not congested, unless you come face-to-face with a mob of sheep. LOL

  6. Peter Barrett says

    I live in a rural area where farmers get their fuel delivered by the road train load. Spraying operations consume hundreds of litres a day and spreads thousands of litres of glyphosate, paraquat and assorted insecticides in a diesel emulsion every time it rains. But it’s not congested, unless you come face-to-face with a mob of sheep. LOL

  7. Peter Barrett says

    Looking more closely at this it is clear the purpose of the tfl congestion charge is to reduce emissions in a specific place. Exempting electric vehicles shifts the emissions to the power station. Exempting hybrids does not.

    Atkinson cycle engines are moderately more efficient than Otto cycle engines, purely electric vehicles are considerably less efficient, relying heavily on base load power stations and the heavy losses incurred in distance transmission, charging and discharging batteries etc.

    So this is just about London keeping itself tidy at the expense of Everyone else really.

  8. Peter Barrett says

    Looking more closely at this it is clear the purpose of the tfl congestion charge is to reduce emissions in a specific place. Exempting electric vehicles shifts the emissions to the power station. Exempting hybrids does not.

    Atkinson cycle engines are moderately more efficient than Otto cycle engines, purely electric vehicles are considerably less efficient, relying heavily on base load power stations and the heavy losses incurred in distance transmission, charging and discharging batteries etc.

    So this is just about London keeping itself tidy at the expense of Everyone else really.

  9. Alan Stainer says

    Peter Barrett I think you will find fully electric vehicles are considerably more efficient than internal combustion engine vehicles.

  10. Alan Stainer says

    Peter Barrett I think you will find fully electric vehicles are considerably more efficient than internal combustion engine vehicles.

  11. Peter Barrett says

    Alan Stainer anyone with a basic understanding of electrical principles will help you understand the nature of transmission lines, resistance, I squared R losses, maximum power transfer, motor slip, battery internal resistance, C-rate charging losses, etc

    Vehicle charging requires baseload power otherwise recharging can only take place when there is solar or wind available.

  12. Peter Barrett says

    Alan Stainer anyone with a basic understanding of electrical principles will help you understand the nature of transmission lines, resistance, I squared R losses, maximum power transfer, motor slip, battery internal resistance, C-rate charging losses, etc

    Vehicle charging requires baseload power otherwise recharging can only take place when there is solar or wind available.

  13. Alan Stainer says

    Peter Barrett you are just plain wrong when it comes to EVs and efficiency, especially when we are talking about them in comparison to internal combustion engines.

    Have a read of this, it may be 8 years old, but the reasoning is still valid.

    saxton.org – Electric Vehicle Efficiency Analysis

    There are lots of articles like this one and they can all be verified as being true. Also I would like to point out that when it comes to the ‘long tailpipe’ that it describes, it doesn’t mention the amount of energy required to refine crude oil. Some oil refineries even have their own dedicated power plants! Plus the grid is getting cleaner and more people are generating their own energy via solar cells.

  14. Alan Stainer says

    Peter Barrett you are just plain wrong when it comes to EVs and efficiency, especially when we are talking about them in comparison to internal combustion engines.

    Have a read of this, it may be 8 years old, but the reasoning is still valid.

    saxton.org – Electric Vehicle Efficiency Analysis

    There are lots of articles like this one and they can all be verified as being true. Also I would like to point out that when it comes to the ‘long tailpipe’ that it describes, it doesn’t mention the amount of energy required to refine crude oil. Some oil refineries even have their own dedicated power plants! Plus the grid is getting cleaner and more people are generating their own energy via solar cells.

  15. Peter Barrett says

    I am one of those generating a good proportion of their own energy with solar wind and biofuel. Where I live a typical summer’s day is 40C. http://aprs.fi/weather/a/VK6FUN-13 and a sizeable proportion of my energy is spent on cooling. I have to be constantly vigilant about my power use and my wife does not like it! Buying an electric vehicle would require me to triple my investment in power generation or give up altogether and go back to expensive blackout-prone grid power. The stuff I have read does not tend to equate with my six years of personal experience.

    aprs.fi – Google Maps APRS

  16. Peter Barrett says

    I am one of those generating a good proportion of their own energy with solar wind and biofuel. Where I live a typical summer’s day is 40C. http://aprs.fi/weather/a/VK6FUN-13 and a sizeable proportion of my energy is spent on cooling. I have to be constantly vigilant about my power use and my wife does not like it! Buying an electric vehicle would require me to triple my investment in power generation or give up altogether and go back to expensive blackout-prone grid power. The stuff I have read does not tend to equate with my six years of personal experience.

    aprs.fi – Google Maps APRS

  17. Alan Stainer says

    Peter Barrett that’#s a really example of one size does not fit all. It sounds like you are doing everything you can though. Any idea why the grid is so prone to blackouts?

  18. Alan Stainer says

    Peter Barrett that’#s a really example of one size does not fit all. It sounds like you are doing everything you can though. Any idea why the grid is so prone to blackouts?

  19. Peter Barrett says

    Alan Stainer 30km from the nearest substation might have something to do with it. Western Australia goes to the polls this weekend and probably the biggest issue is the sale of Western Power, the government owned infrastructure owner/operator.

    mobile.abc.net.au – WA Government to sell 51 per cent of Western Power, hopes to raise $11 billion – ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    My gut feeling says private ownership will improve the service but hey this conservative strategy of selling public assets eventually exhausts itself. It’s a natural monopoly.

  20. Peter Barrett says

    Alan Stainer 30km from the nearest substation might have something to do with it. Western Australia goes to the polls this weekend and probably the biggest issue is the sale of Western Power, the government owned infrastructure owner/operator.

    mobile.abc.net.au – WA Government to sell 51 per cent of Western Power, hopes to raise $11 billion – ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    My gut feeling says private ownership will improve the service but hey this conservative strategy of selling public assets eventually exhausts itself. It’s a natural monopoly.

  25. Mac Baird says

    Peter Barrett Very true! Electric drive on submarines is much quieter than steam turbine drive with reduction gears and a lot of other moving parts. The photo of a piano next to your name got my attention because my first submarine, USS Thomas A. Edison (SSBN 610), had a piano in crew’s mess, a donation from one of Edison’s decedents. To my knowledge, we were the only sub in the world to have a piano on board and had to take precautions not to play it when we had sonar contacts of any kind. My third sub was a diesel electric, USS Grayback (SS 574), and much quieter on the battery than any of my nuclear boats, but much noisier when charging the batteries.

  26. Mac Baird says

    Peter Barrett Very true! Electric drive on submarines is much quieter than steam turbine drive with reduction gears and a lot of other moving parts. The photo of a piano next to your name got my attention because my first submarine, USS Thomas A. Edison (SSBN 610), had a piano in crew’s mess, a donation from one of Edison’s decedents. To my knowledge, we were the only sub in the world to have a piano on board and had to take precautions not to play it when we had sonar contacts of any kind. My third sub was a diesel electric, USS Grayback (SS 574), and much quieter on the battery than any of my nuclear boats, but much noisier when charging the batteries.

  29. Johnyblaze62 says

    EV and Hybrid are the best choice by far now !..Trumple Kucklehead just Rolled back Fuel Efficiency Standards..Lol..What a smart guy !!…Ilmao..

  30. Johnyblaze62 says

    EV and Hybrid are the best choice by far now !..Trumple Kucklehead just Rolled back Fuel Efficiency Standards..Lol..What a smart guy !!…Ilmao..

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