Grass will give you gas
No really. I remember reading a small snippet on the Ecotricity website recently about research going into using grass instead of energy crops. Well, this article is an even stronger indication that it will be possible.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160721072755.htm#.V8cF0Tz5Pm0.google_plusone_share
what plant was used to study chlorophyll? and the “breathing pores” in leaves? was it grass?
Mei Ah the article doesn’t mention chlorophyll. However, it does mention that garden grass was used during the experiment as a proof of concept.
i think grass was used mostly for its easy availability. plus its not a crop plant so if you burn it up it wouldnt really deprive (a consumer) . NOW. the big question is: why are ppl going after grass as energy source? GADS, man. they’re like, our super fail-safe, for Oxygen source , and now getting to be fuel too? -we are so sick. leave the grass alone! your CO2 needs an exchanger, and God has provided the simplest method. you guys want to invent CO2 – O2 converter? (shakes head in exasperation)
Mei Ah we already cut grass on a large scale. Why not find alternative uses for it other than going straight into that overflowing compost bin?
naw.. leave the grass alone. it’s our last resort. for O2, for God’s sake. -this going after the grass makes me think of someone dredging up the last crumbs in a food bin. or the last 1cents in a piggy bank . Get fuel from the ocean. it has loads of Hydrogen to release. and it is way more “free”
Mei Ah Grass is a renewable source of energy that can potentially replace or reduce the consumption of fossil carbon. Cut grass rotting in a landfill actually produces methane, a green house gas that is 23 times more detrimental than CO2 when it seeps to the surface.
Similar like the energy-independent Güssing in Austria.
http://blog.rmi.org/blog_2013_10_08_high-renewables_tomorrow_today_gussing_austria
good
Mei Ah 9 out of every 10 breaths you take had its oxygen provided by the ocean. And if we use grass clippings that would otherwise go to waste this is only being efficient. It would not be the only source of energy, that way of thinking has been taught to us by fossil fuel, multiple means of producing energy is far more advantageous than the single source system we are accustomed to.
Mac Baird If the waste management managers know what they are doing they will compost the organic matter, collect the waste gas, and use it as energy for their operations. Methane obtained and burned in this manner is less much less damaging as it adds no carbon to the cycle, supplements current fossil fuel use, and provides high value compost that can then be used to grow more organic fuel.
Mei Ah All of the O2 I breathed during the 5.5 years I accumulated underwater during my 20 year career in the Submarine Force came directly from seawater via O2 generators. The CO2 scrubbers and CO burners were less efficient than Mother Nature, and we adapted to CO2 levels 25 times higher than the surface atmosphere that existed back in 68 to 88. The Carbon Cycle is currently out of balance due to Human combustion of fossil fuels, nothing else. Deriving energy from anything other than fossil fuels is beneficial to restoring the Carbon Cycle. I suggest that massive planetary deforestation is a far greater concern than mowing a lawn that is immediately replenished by the following weekend.
Edwin Laarz You are correct regarding well managed landfills. However, they appear to be the exception outside of wealthy communities.
Mac Baird Basically true, though if the smaller municipalities were to look into it they would often be surprised at cost/benefit. If they aren’t large enough to justify the investment many larger municipalities consider purchasing waste since it often makes them a profit.
Edwin Laarz
The wealth of a community is not a function of size, but rather per capita income and tax base. There is little entrepreneurial interest or investment in poor communities where the vast majority of the population resides.
Mac Baird That continues to baffle me. Investing in poor communities will only be more profitable. The initial payback time may be slightly longer, but will have greater yields in less overall time.
Edwin Laarz
Waste removal and landfill management is a business that is funded almost entirely by tax dollars or direct billing. While they can mitigate some of their costs through energy recovery, the cash flow is always a net negative. The community or local government is the customer. Business owners tend to want to locate near wealth, rather than the alternative. Wealthy homeowners are more able to afford the service or, more importantly, more likely to demand it.
Mac Baird Edmonton buys waste from the nearby smaller communities for recycling because they have the facilities the smaller ones cannot afford and they make money from the sale of the recovered materials. They sell compost acquired for free from the population to local distributors that then sell it back to the populace.
That waste management is a net loss business without tax subsidization is a myth that few want to see exposed.
Edwin Laarz
Recycling is a viable business model. Landfills are not. I would add that I am billed $11.24/mo for garbage removal and $3.10/mo for recycling pickup.
Mac Baird I toss all of it under waste management. I don’t pay for waste pickup/removal since I live in the country and have to take care of it myself. Most people stop thinking about waste as soon as it is out of the house, I have to consider it much further. My own $#!+ ends up getting composted and added to my garden.
Edwin Laarz
Unfortunately, I pay whether I use it or not, along with sewer and water which adds another $69/mo, a benefit of living on the FL Space Coast.
Mac Baird Hence why I hope to cut all of my cords. Spending $30/month just for the right to be connected to a gas line and another $20/month for electricity before I have used any is robbery. They call it an administration charge and then charge administration fees on top of my usage.
Edwin Laarz
You have a good deal. My electric bill runs >$200/mo during the summer months, but my gas bill is usually less than $20/mo year around.
Mac Baird That wasn’t my usage, that was charges I pay before usage. Summer power is around $150, winter $225. Summer gas $35, winter $150+. At least my water and sewer are mine, and one day I hope that my power and heat are mine as well.
Edwin Laarz
The base or access charge is what we all pay to maintain the infrastructure between us and the source for each service. That infrastructure averages 100 years old for the nation’s sewer, water and electric collectively. It will only get more expensive to maintain even beyond adjusting for an average long-term inflation rate of 2.9% that doubles the cost every 24 years.
Mac Baird That is supposed to be included in the transmission charge. The administration charge is supposed to be for administration purposes, and you cannot convince me that it takes over an hour every month to administer my utilities when hooking it up in the first place is a 15 minute phone call. Suffice it to say that I have little trust in the honesty of companies that make billion dollar profits providing what is now a societal requirement.
Plus we are WAY off topic at this point.
Edwin Laarz Returning to the subject of waste management (garden grass clippings) and its economic viability, we have an example illustrating the fundamentals. finviz.com – Stock Quote WM Waste Management, Inc.
Mac Baird Ain’t gonna lie, that is mostly gibberish to me. However it looks like a graph of the overall business value of Waste Management Incorporayed as measured by the presumed value of its stocks. If correct how does this represent the fundamentals of grass clipping compost economic viability?
Edwin Laarz
If this garden grass (waste) hydrogen process is to become economically successful, revenue must exceed the cost of production at some point, and the customer base must grow. Hydrogen currently has no infrastructure and no customer base, the creation of both requiring significant private or public investment before a potential profit can be anticipated. WM is an example of success in managing other forms of waste for profit. Demand must come before supply. Unfortunately, the true cost of Fossil Fuel is not yet being passed along to the consumer.
Mac Baird Agreed. However there is a side argument that an economic system that requires constant growth in order to function is ultimately doomed to failure as infinite growth is impossible. I can only hope that when the reality of our fossil fuel reliance really begins to dawn on people that they open their eyes and see the lie that is currency as well.
Edwin Laarz
Profit growth is a requirement in the private economy, but not the public economy. In the nonprofit or public economy, all you need is demand, and supply will adjust accordingly. In the private economy, as the true cost of fossil energy eventually achieves the demand destruction level, the consumer will shift to other sources, possibly hydrogen someday. As long as there is demand for energy, supply is flexible regarding source. Ask anyone who made their living as a whaler.
Currency is irrelevant. It can be anything we choose to swap for one’s labor. The only thing we know for certain about currency is the supply must ultimately match the size of the workforce, and concentration of wealth serves to reduce collective spending and therefore employment. Currently, it takes about $100 billion of collective spending to create or sustain 1 million jobs in the US. The potential workforce is roughly half the population. Real (U-6) Unemployment is currently about 10% of the potential workforce.
Mac Baird Currency is a false representation of value. And labour is simply the outsourcing of slavery. We have the knowledge and resources on this planet right now to provide free energy to everyone on the planet. Same goes with feeding everyone. Why we don’t is because of greed. Many claim if everything were free then nobody would do anything, and yet volunteerism continues to grow.
Hydrogen is a resource, as are fossil fuels. The only thing that should matter is the responsible management of resources.
Edwin Laarz
If currency is a false representation of value, why do you demand some for your labor? Slavery is labor without compensation. On the other hand, if labor is fun, it is not work. I feel like I haven’t worked a day since high school, and I am 21 years into my third career after 20 years in the Submarine Force and 7 years at Cape Canaveral. There is nothing wrong with volunteerism, but even Socialism uses a currency to keep score of the value of each person’s contribution to society.
Mac Baird
so… dont cut grass… it dries out when the soil is dry, and grows again with rainfall.. it keeps the topsoil from eroding, hence keeping the nutrients needed by the future plants that will grow
Mei Ah
Now I have this mental picture stuck in my mind of what your lawn must look like. Actually, I prefer a mulching lawn mower that leaves the clippings right in the lawn.
Mac Baird I demand some because the society I live in requires currency for my needs. Slaves working for someone that wanted good production had their needs provided. Many people enjoy their job until economic pressures turn their joy into labour, and what used to be a joy is now a requirement for survival. And the name of a governing system does not change the underlying flaws; socialism/feudalism/capitalism, they are all built on the concept that all a human is is a consumable resource for those that hold power in the form of currency.
What one person does is no more important than what any other person does. We all sit on toilets cleaned by janitors, we all eat food grown by farmers, we all live in homes built by labourers, we all wear clothing sewn by seamstresses, we all use power produced by engineers. Fail to properly maintain part of the machine and eventually the whole thing will fail, or properly maintain all parts and watch a well oiled machine perform.
Edwin Laarz
Labor in the service of others is not valued equally. People are willing to pay more for some products and services and less for others. The economics of supply and demand apply to the value of everything. The only thing changing is the rate at which human labor is replaced with technology and the exponentially increasing need for Humanity to develop STEM skills.
Mei Ah I also like the idea of pulling hydrogen from water, but even then utilizing other ‘waste’ sources for power in order to reduce waste elswhere is only a good thing. Ultimately this could lead to using a farmers field to grow food and produce hydrogen simultaneously.
And I rake my lawn after every mowing and toss it to the cattle as a treat since the grass on this side of the fence is always greener. I also encourage the creeping charlie that is growing on my lawn since it stays green even in a drought, rarely grows over 8cm at this latitude, feels soft underfoot, and has amazing little flowers that feed the bees and brighten up an otherwise single coloured lawn.
Edwin Laarz
“grow food and produce hydrogen simultaneously” – is i think too much multitasking for peanuts (or pennies). the waste from the harvest can be used for the (extra) need (?) for hydrogen….
and why do we need to bother the organics any more…? there is too much heat up in the atmosphere already waiting to be converted. why not give out solar panels instead
and somebody please invent something to absorb or otherwise metabolize the waste or toxins that usage of said energy will produce
Mac Baird Labour in the service of others should be valued equally. Why is a Doctors service more valuable than a Janitor’s? Without that Janitor the Doctor cannot do his job and would become a Janitor (simplified). Supply and demand is often artificial in a world where competition for resources is mandatory. Humans should evolve and recognize that taking care of the common good is more beneficial than looking out for number one.
Mei Ah The waste from the harvest is the simultaneous part. Solar panels alone is not a good idea, utilization of many sources (tidal, wind, geothermal, organic, hydro, nuclear, etc.) guarantees a better energy future for everyone. And people are inventing the absorbtion systems you are asking for.
https://news.uic.edu/breakthrough-solar-cell-captures-co2-and-sunlight-produces-burnable-fuel
Edwin Laarz
While I agree with you that the macro concept of common good is an important factor in human society, there is no society on the planet that values or has ever valued the services of a janitor and a doctor equally on the micro level. As a farmer, you cannot value a tractor, a horse and a human equally, relative to their contribution to your productivity, nor would you value your hired help equally regardless of their experience. Supply and demand is always artificial (perception) in a world of needs versus wants. I also agree with your reply to Mei Ah.
you guys.. haha… the poor grass… you just want to consume and consume – there are WAY other sources of energy and the grass is last resort.. so you really want to go last resort to the barest thing that keeps the soil where it should be … locusts :P
Mei Ah
Which part of renewable don’t you understand?
Mei Ah you seem to be under the misapprehension that the grass would be completely destroyed. To date I have never known a grass lawn to be killed by mowing it. It always grows back. That is renewable right there. No locusts involved.
mowing is ok. i dont want to argue anymore ^_^
Alan Stainer On the other hand, we might be better off just replacing the lawn with a vegetable garden. sciencedaily.com – How does your garden grow? Researchers model the effect of household gardens on greenhouse gas emissions
you can delete that mental picture,, no lawn atm Mac Baird
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